Forensics, Felonies, and Digital Receipts

When data “walks out the door,” the hardest part isn’t always the malware, it’s the human story behind the keyboard. We sit down with Ankara Managing Director Alyssa Lisiewski, a cyber forensics and intelligence practitioner who has worked across the intelligence community, the Department of Defense, and enterprise security, and who has testified as an expert witness in federal and military courts. Together, we unpack what it really takes to follow a digital trail when the threat actor is unknown, evidence is messy, and the stakes are high.

Alyssa shares how early curiosity with computers, a criminology foundation, and years of hands-on digital forensics shaped her investigative approach. We talk about the pivot from classic crime scene fascination into computer forensics, the value of mentors who take a chance on you, and the grind of working full time while earning a graduate degree. From there we get into “preventive forensics” and thinking like an adversary, how threat intelligence connects to forensic analysis, and why insider threat and insider risk are rarely just technical problems.

We also go where security conversations often avoid: the psychological weight of major crimes work, what it means to see people at their worst, and why boundaries matter when compartmentalization starts to fail, especially after becoming a parent or working from home. Alyssa explains how she now blends threat actor attribution, deep forensic investigations, and post-breach litigation support, and why building flexible, sustainable roles is the future of cyber investigations.

Subscribe for more practical security conversations, share this with someone building a career in digital forensics or insider threat, and leave a review so more listeners can find Voices of the Vigilant.

Transcript

Jess Vachon  00:33

Hey everyone, welcome back to Voices of the Vigilant. Excited to bring you another episode. So, let's start out with a question for you. When a crime happens online, when data walks out the door, when a threat actor goes dark, when someone inside an organization is playing both sides, who's the one who follows that digital trail? Today's guest does exactly that. She built her career at the intersection of criminology, cyber forensics, intelligence work, and insider threat. And she's done it across some of the most high-stakes environments imaginable: the intelligence community, the Department of Defense, Capital One, and now Ankura, one of the most respected names in cyber investigations. She's testified as an expert witness in federal and military courts. She's chaired advisory committees at the DOD. She's led forensics labs. Wait, I'm still going. And she's one of the most thoughtful practitioners I've encountered when it comes to the human side of threat — specifically, why people do what they do inside organizations, and how you find them when they do. Oh, she's also been on TV. Well, grocery store TV, but more on that a little bit later. I'm so glad she's here. Please welcome Managing Director at Ankura, Alyssa Lisiewski. Alyssa, welcome to the show. And I hope I pronounced your last name properly.

Alyssa Lisiewski  01:45

You did. That was very good. Most people don't, so I answer to anything that sounds semi-similar.

Jess Vachon  01:53

Well, again, welcome, and I'm glad I got that right — I practiced a few times before the show. So, let's start at the beginning. Not the resume beginning, the real beginning, because I read that at four years old your dad was already teaching you to take apart computers and put them back together. What kind of kid were you, and what did you learn from that experience?

Alyssa Lisiewski  02:11

Yeah, so when my sister and I were both very little, my dad wanted us to really get into computers. We didn't just play games — well, the old-school games, right, where you use the keyboard and it's like Mickey Mouse jumping over things — he also taught us how to take computers apart and put them back together. He saw that it was something that was going to take off, that it would be really important to understand. At the time, I didn't even really think that was my goal, to go into computer forensics or even cyber. But I think having that at such a young age kind of shaped me toward that path. It was also just problem solving — learning how to figure out how everything went back together. So yeah, it's definitely a very important part of why I'm where I am. You wouldn't think that would be it, but it really led me down a certain path.

Jess Vachon  03:15

I'm curious — often when I speak to other women, I hear about early influences in their life, and you've spoken about your father and how he had you taking apart computers. What other things did he do that weren't gender-specific, where he just looked at you and said, these are my children, and I want to teach them everything there is to teach them? What were your perspectives on that? How do you look back on that and think about how that didn't just shape your professional career, but your life in general?

Alyssa Lisiewski  03:48

Yeah, I also saw at a young age that he went back to school to get his degrees. And he would sit down and do our homework with us, show us how to do everything. I think that shaped my work ethic, and my work ethic is a big reason why I am where I am today. Because I've seen in my career very intelligent, very capable people who, without the work ethic or the drive, go in different directions. So, I think the biggest thing that was ingrained in us was that work ethic — working really hard for something you enjoy, and learning. I'm not the best at everything. I was a horrible test taker, but I always had that drive and that passion to keep doing what I'm doing. And I think that was instilled in me at a very young age.

Jess Vachon  04:48

So that's your very young age. Between then and — I'm assuming, or maybe you didn't go to college, but if you did — tell us about what sports you played, what you were involved in, what you were studying in college.

Alyssa Lisiewski  05:01

Yeah, so when I was younger, I did dance for a long time. I started dance when I was probably four years old, and I did it all the way through high school. Then when I got to college — a little bit in high school and then part of college — I did musical theater. I wasn't really a big sports person. I tried soccer and things like that, and I'm pretty sure when I played soccer I would stop in the middle of the field and pick out all the weeds. So definitely not athletic there. But I think all of that really helped — thinking back on some of the times I first testified, having that experience of being on stage with dance and musical theater was definitely helpful. When I did go to college, my undergrad is in criminology and criminal justice. I originally wanted to do crime scene investigations — more the biological, forensic side — and then shifted gears once I started looking into grad schools and saw that computer forensics was an option. That changed my path at that point.

Jess Vachon  06:04

Okay, so glad you brought up crime scene investigations. What drew you to that in particular? Were you a kid watching detective shows? Reading mystery novels? There's something that draws people to that particular niche of criminology.

Alyssa Lisiewski  06:20

Yeah, I used to watch Forensic Files — that was what I enjoyed watching. I had friends watching other things, and I'd watch Forensic Files. I also had a teacher in high school — sorry, in college — who I took a genetics class with, and I found it really interesting. That's where I really got into the biological, chemical type of forensics. I was his student aide. That, plus watching Forensic Files and other crime shows, really got me interested in wanting to do that. I wanted to solve crimes, but I didn't necessarily want to be a detective, so that was part of why I went down that path. Once I learned more about it, though — I wouldn't say I'm necessarily an extrovert, but I don't want to be by myself either, I like being around people. And from what I was learning, that biological, chemical type of forensics is a lot more lab work than people think. It's not like TV. That's when I realized maybe that wasn't the path I wanted. I really wanted the analytical work, to figure out the whole story, and that's what pulled me toward the computer side.

Jess Vachon  07:38

So, you're looking at forensics, you're interested in computers, you're learning computers at a young age, and you've come to the realization that there's something there. In talking to people and listening to other podcasts, that seems to be the point at which someone decides which path they're going to go — black hat or white hat — because there's an interest, right? You said you didn't want to be an investigator, like with a police department or a detective, so you could have decided, I'm very interested, but I want to go the black hat route. But it sounds like you leaned toward the white hat side. What helped you make that decision?

Alyssa Lisiewski  08:20

Yeah, I think part of it was having that criminology background. A lot of the courses I took, and a lot of the professors I talked to, were really about understanding why people did things, and then helping prevent them from doing that — that's what I found interesting. That's why I liked the path I was going down, because I could do that through computer analysis and cyber analysis. I wasn't just focused on, okay, somebody downloaded this from here, they went on Tor, they did that — I was thinking more about why they were doing it. That helped me in my career find other evidence, because I was thinking, if I were this person, what would I do to get this end result? I really just found that interesting, and that's why I wanted to go down that path. I wanted to help people, but still be able to do what I liked, which was the forensics piece.

Jess Vachon  09:30

That's awesome. So, you had this interest, you made a decision about which path you wanted to go down, and you ended up doing an internship at the Diplomatic Security Computer Investigations and Forensics Unit. Talk to us a little bit about that. How did you find that internship, and what did you learn during that time?

Alyssa Lisiewski  09:47

Yeah, so this actually goes back to my dad again — I owe him a lot for my career. He was a government contractor at the time. I had gone to an open house at GW for their forensic graduate programs, and they were talking about high-tech crime investigations. I decided after that, that was the path I was going to go down. So, he looked into what Diplomatic Security had from a computer forensics perspective, and he reached out to the chief of the group there and said, my daughter's really interested in this, can she come talk to you, hear more about it, see what it's really like? He was really great — he let us come in, gave us a tour, and at the end he said, we typically only take graduate students as interns, but if you apply through the government as an intern, we'd love to have you. So I went through that process, applied, and was selected. It was an unpaid internship in undergrad, which was fine. I learned a lot — a lot of grunt work, obviously, since I was an intern, but I also got to learn about new tools I hadn't learned about in school, because at the time there weren't forensic degrees — there weren't even really cyber degrees, it was computers and criminology, which is why I did those two things. It was really cool. I learned a lot, met a lot of great people, some I still keep in touch with. I also learned that most of the graduate interns there were from the GW graduate program, and they explained that it was a really good program — all the professors were adjuncts who worked in the field during the day and taught at night. I loved the idea of learning from people who were actually doing the work, so I decided to apply to that graduate program after the internship. I was a little worried because most of the people who applied were computer science majors, which I was not. But it was great — it got my foot in the door in the government world, and that was the start of my government contracting career, including a lot of work in the intelligence community and the DOD.

Jess Vachon  12:18

That's a lot to be doing at once. It sounds like you moved pretty rapidly — internship, then graduate degree, then full-time work. And you talked earlier about your work ethic. Do you believe that's what got you through it? I'm assuming you were relatively young, early in your career — that's a lot to put on yourself. You're learning, you've got a criminology degree, you're interning, you're getting your graduate degree. Talk a little bit about what your life was like during that time, because I think a lot of people listening are thinking, I don't know if I can take that big of a step.

Alyssa Lisiewski  13:03

Yeah. So, I interned in undergrad and then went straight to grad school. I worked full-time during the day and went to classes at night. I did take one class on a Saturday, which — in hindsight, I wouldn't recommend. That was a lot, six-hour days on a Saturday. I lived at home with my parents at the time, which I was very grateful for. I lived in Maryland, and my classes and work were in Virginia — not necessarily far, but the traffic in that area is horrible. I'd drive to work in the morning, do a full day, thankfully my classes were about fifteen minutes from work, drive to class, be there until nine or ten at night, drive home, do homework, then wake up and do it again. I think the work ethic I had was a big part of getting through that. It was a lot, but it was worth it. I'm not necessarily a great test taker — I'd say I was a decent student; I liked doing the work, but it didn't always come easy. It was a lot of hard work. Now that I'm older and have kids, I don't know how my dad did it and went back to school with children too. I'm very grateful I did it then so I could get started in my career. At the time there weren't many cyber degrees, and a lot of the computer forensics jobs I was looking at wanted people who were ex-military or ex-law enforcement — maybe not years of experience in that specific work, but with those job backgrounds. I didn't have that. I was young, just out of undergrad, so I felt like I had to have the degree if I wanted to pursue it. There were a couple of certifications I could have done, but without the graduate degree — or really, without what I learned in those courses — I don't think I would have been able to do even those certificates. I really wanted to get a job, make a difference, and I felt like grad school was the only way to do that. I worked full-time and paid for grad school as I went, and I was able to do that because my parents let me live at home. I was lucky, and since I had that, I wanted to make sure I took advantage of it, because I know a lot of people wouldn't have that opportunity.

Jess Vachon  15:36

I'm thankful you spoke so much to that time getting your graduate degree, because a lot of people in our industry say, I have my bachelor's, I've got a couple certificates, I don't need to go do more. But you can hear in your story how you learned different perspectives of thinking, and there was a certain work requirement that went along with that, which builds your resilience, builds your fortitude, gives you the ladder to build your future career on. That's important. So, when people question the investment, you've spoken directly to that. And here you are at a point where there wasn't really an established path — you were creating a new one into insider threat and insider risk analysis, which is an interesting pivot, especially that early in your career and at a time when the field hadn't been formalized across the industry. It is now, but back then we were all kind of out in the wild west, establishing that trail for others to follow. I'd like to move a little bit into — and I know you're not going to be able to speak deeply about this — you moved from government contracting in the intelligence community, doing digital forensics there. From an intelligence perspective, which I understand is fundamentally different from what most people think of as forensics. Tell us a little bit about how the work differed from what we might think of as forensics.

Alyssa Lisiewski  17:13

Yeah, so I don't know if this is a real term — maybe nowadays there is one, but at the time I don't think there was — I kind of called it "preventative forensics," because it wasn't what you see on TV, where a crime occurred, or even from the intelligence perspective, there was a spy and you're looking at their devices to see what they did. It was more about reviewing devices or programs that were going to be used in an intelligence setting to see what could be found from a forensic perspective if somebody found it. What I really enjoyed was that we wouldn't just do it at one level — as in, here are all the resources we have as a government contractor. We'd look at it from different levels: if I were just some random person walking down the street and found this device on the ground, what could I find with free tooling? All the way up to, if you were a foreign adversary with a lot of money and a lot of tooling, what could you find? I always thought that was really interesting, because you can see how it progresses and why it's important to do certain things — you might say, that's not going to matter unless one of our adversaries got it, versus some random person on the street. But there are a lot of free tools that can be used in ways people don't realize. That was a lot of what I did in the intelligence community, and that's kind of where the threat intelligence part of my career started, because I had to learn about certain countries and things just to know what to look out for. It wasn't something that even most people from my graduate program went into — most went into law enforcement or the more traditional path, like where I ended up later at DC3, doing criminal investigation. So, it was a very interesting side path, but a direct path at the same time — I don't know if that makes sense. I learned a lot there and met some really great people I still keep in touch with as mentors. If I had to give the number one piece of advice, I give people who ask, it would be having mentors along the way, whether they're people you work with or people you've met at a conference or training course. I had a mentor when I started in the intelligence community — he was such a big advocate for me, had faith in me, and brought me in when I didn't have direct work experience. I was working as a government contractor in cyber, but not in forensics. I had my degree, though, and he took a chance on me. I'll never forget that, and I still keep in touch with him to this day. That was an important part of my career.

Jess Vachon  20:43

We covered a lot in that section — one thing I want to go back to, and I'll circle back to the mentor piece too, but you talked about what I'd call, from my military background, war-gaming: trying to figure out how your adversary thinks, what paths are available for them to attack you, and then running through scenarios. Those of you listening who've been in the military know this — you come up with a plan, run an exercise, figure out where your weak spots are, and run through it again and again until you figure out how to be better at defense. Sometimes that means taking the offensive position and trying to figure out how you'd attack yourself. I'm glad you covered so much of that, because there's a tendency for people without military experience in our industry to only live off the experiences of others, rather than experimenting, taking the tools, seeing how they're used, and thinking outside the box — which we'll get to further in this podcast — but that's what leads to a great insider threat analyst, a great insider threat director: being able to think about those alternative paths, those alternative ways of attacking an organization. Now, talking about mentoring — you've talked a lot about how many mentors you had and how important they were to you. Do you actually mentor others, and if so, what type of advice do you provide to your mentees?

Alyssa Lisiewski  22:00

Yeah, I do. Throughout probably the second half of my career to date, I've mentored people, whether through work mentor programs I get set up with, or people who reach out to me through LinkedIn, family, friends, or acquaintances. In addition to the mentor piece, I always advise that everybody's different, and the path that works for you is going to differ. Just because one person says, I don't need a master's degree, certifications are better, or vice versa — it really depends on each individual. A lot of times I'll have a mentee say, well, my teacher or professor said I shouldn't go to graduate school because it's not worth it. And I'll explain that it made the most sense for me at that time — nowadays there are even more opportunities and programs to specialize further than the one I did. But I always say it depends, and I'll recommend they reach out to people in the industry, even outside a mentor-mentee capacity, just to learn how they got to where they are. Researching all the certifications and programs is great but hearing it directly from someone is very important. When I was in grad school, I had a professor who pulled a couple of us aside — students he saw doing well in class — because he wanted to make sure we understood what came along with this career. There are things you're going to have to see that you don't want to see. He explained how it had impacted his own life — because of what he'd seen and done, he'd become very controlling over other aspects of his life, his schedule down to the minute. I share that with mentees too — the advice that worked for me isn't guaranteed to work for you. Some of my mentors just said, this is what you should do, without really figuring out if it was the best approach for me. So that's another piece of advice I give. And the last piece, which I was really bad about early in my career until the past few years or so, is setting boundaries for yourself around what's important to you, inside and outside of work.

Jess Vachon  25:33

And like I said, sometimes it's harder, especially earlier in your career, to do that, but I wish somebody had told me that earlier on, so I try to recommend that to people when I have mentees. Yeah, I'd say that's it — that's solid advice, and that last piece is so critical, because I think a lot of us who mentor forget to tell people: this is a career, this isn't your life, and you have to balance everything. The value of having a career is enabling the life you want to live, and having limits is okay, because I think so many of us are geared to go, go, go, and give — especially on this side, we're wired to be protectors, so we think we just have to keep doing that, keep doing that. So, letting people we're encouraging into the field know: you can't keep all the balls juggling in the air, you've got to let some drop, and that's okay. It's important. Yeah, because when you try to catch all of them, that's the burnout, right — it's an impossible task. Yes, yes, and unfortunately a lot of people learn that the hard way. And that's why it's so important that we have these conversations, so people can hear, it's okay, it's okay if I'm not perfect, because none of us are going to be. And if you look at the bigger picture — what are we trying to defend against? We're defending against nation states, we're defending against organized crime, thousands of individuals on a daily basis with all the tools available to them and almost unlimited funds. It's a Herculean task to try to defend against that. And you can't carry that into bed with you when you put your head down at night — you have to be able to let it go, or it's going to drive you absolutely crazy.

Jess Vachon  27:26

All right; I'll get off of that. So, you were at the Department of Defense Cyber Crime Center — DC3, if I've got that right — and you served on their forensic advisory committee. How was that different from the work you were doing in the intelligence community, if it was different at all?

Alyssa Lisiewski  27:45

Yeah, so at DC3 I worked mostly under the Major Crimes Unit. We investigated and did analysis on anything digital — if there was a digital part of a crime, it came to us, and a lot of it was military and federal cases. That was more the criminal aspect: we'd work with case agents, and they'd tell us what the person was being charged with or planned to be charged with, here are all their devices, and we'd do the analysis, write an expert report, and testify if it went to trial — on the prosecution side, the government side. It was different. The forensic analysis itself doesn't change — you're still looking at how a computer's operating system works, what people are doing online — but what you're trying to solve, the actual result, shifts slightly. It was interesting, because I got to analyze devices I hadn't in the intelligence community. We had a lot of military and government cases, still a lot of older mobile devices and things like that. I had one case I'll never forget — over 130 pieces of evidence to analyze, because this person had kept every device forever, probably classifiable as a hoarder. Part of it was twenty floppy disks. We had to image and analyze them — the chances of finding what I was looking for on a floppy drive were very slim, but I still had to review everything. After that, I could probably run my own Tupperware party, because that's pretty much all that was on those disks. I had reports that ranged from five pages to about eighty, depending on what we had to analyze. Because we had to anticipate everything going to litigation — which is different from the intelligence community — there was a lot more we had to make sure we documented, not just chain of custody but every little detail. That's where I first testified, and that's always going to be a major part of my career and my path, because I never really thought I'd do that, given how much time I'd spent in the intelligence community — I figured that's where I'd stay. But like we talked about, life is why I switched out of the intelligence community. My now-husband, who I met in college, and I wanted to settle down, and it didn't make sense with where he worked, closer to Maryland, while I was out in Virginia. It was very difficult. So, I was trying to find forensics jobs in Maryland, and that was one of the few that wasn't just a police department. I really enjoyed it. I remember the first time I testified, about six or seven months after I got married — I'd recently changed my last name, and I started sweating bullets about spelling it correctly. As we discussed, it doesn't sound like how it looks. I remember sitting there trying to make sure I didn't mess up spelling my own name, and that was for federal court, so I was very nervous. But once I started talking about what I did, I was fine. I always tell people that shows nobody goes up there without nerves — every single person I've talked to who's testified says the same thing. But that was a very important part of my career, learning how to testify as an expert, because a lot of times you want to go into detail about everything you did, but that's not really the point — you need to explain in a way other people can understand, and why it matters to that specific case. I learned a lot there about explaining technical concepts to people who wouldn't necessarily understand them, and that's helped me a lot talking to executives or clients who may not either. So, testifying itself was important, but so was everything that came with learning how to testify.

Jess Vachon  32:54

Yeah, I can't imagine what it's like to testify. You're in there, you know your skills, you know you're really good at what you do, but you're being called into question — if you misspeak, you start to doubt yourself, and the questions make you wonder, did I actually do that? I know I did it, but now they're making me wonder. That's intense — having to sit there and settle back into confidence in your own skills, and say, no, I did this the right way, walking through all the steps and explaining it, because forensics is highly complicated and detailed, and you have to boil that down into something a jury, prosecutors, and defense attorneys can all understand — not just civilians in the room, but everyone. That's a lot. I'm interested — you mentioned floppy disks, and I'm so glad you shared that. For those of you who don't know, that's the little save icon on your computer, the floppy disk. But it made me think — you found Tupperware, and I'm wondering if that's when you started to see different aspects of the people you were investigating, started painting a picture of a whole person, understanding the types of personalities that do the things they do and why. Was that the inspiration to move you further down the road toward insider threat?

Alyssa Lisiewski  34:39

Yeah, that's a really good point — I don't know if I'd ever thought about it that way, but I do think it plays a big factor. It goes back to that criminology background, always wanting to know why people do the things they do. Going through people's messages, their pictures, everything on a device — you really do learn a lot about a person. You see how they're communicating, not just with people involved in whatever you're looking into, but with family and friends, because you have to go through pretty much everything. There were times we'd see how somebody was being treated and think, maybe I can see why they're doing this. That's a big part of insider threat too — understanding why people do what they're doing. A lot of the time, someone who becomes a malicious insider — or even an unintentional one — it's because something else is going on in their life that's causing them to act a certain way, whether they're disgruntled about something at work or having financial troubles at home, whatever it is. Usually, people aren't going into a job planning to be an insider — sometimes that happens, especially in the intelligence community, but a lot of times it happens after the fact. So, it's interesting, and the things I've learned, whether I wanted to learn them or not, I'll probably be scarred for life from some of it. But I also think it's very important to understand why people do what they do. It doesn't excuse it, but it helps you become a better examiner or investigator when it comes to forensics and insider threat. That's a piece not everyone has — a lot of people I've seen are either very technical or have a very investigative mindset.

Jess Vachon  37:12

And you really need the combination of both, especially now, given the way the world and technology are. Based on your experience — and I think I've heard this, but I want to ask it more directly — do you find that most insider threats come from desperation rather than, say, being a vigilante or trying to get back at the company?

Alyssa Lisiewski  37:42

Yeah, I think there's definitely a combination. A lot of times there's also the opportunity — if somebody already has pre-existing behaviors or circumstances and the opportunity arises, that's the crossroad. I've also seen it from the other side, where somebody is purposely going somewhere to be an insider, whether for vengeance or the vigilante aspect you mentioned. But a lot of what I've seen in the cases I've worked is more opportunity combined with pre-existing behaviors or situations that get them to that point — that's true on both the intelligence side and the criminal side. A lot of times it's that opportunity meeting those preexisting conditions.

Jess Vachon  38:50

I appreciate you talking about what we as cyber professionals are exposed to, because some of it is, frankly, disgusting — not stuff we want to see, whether it's explicit content or the way people act. It's the least enjoyable part of what we do. We don't want to see people at their worst, but we have to, and I always sit there wondering, what was this person thinking, did they not think someone would eventually come along and pull back the covers? It's saddening. It's not the enjoyable part. The enjoyable part — and I'm sure you'd agree — is justice, bringing the scales back into balance. But I don't think there's enough appreciation for people who do this work, for what they have to see. It's a lot to carry, a lot to put away and store, and we talk about compartmentalization, but that only holds for so long.

Alyssa Lisiewski  40:09

Yeah — to that point, when I was at DC3, that was really what drove me, because I saw things I never wanted to see, like you said, explicit, just sad things. But I knew I was helping bring bad actors to justice, getting people off the streets. I was honestly planning on doing that for the majority of my career — I was a government contractor and wanted to become a government employee, and that was the plan. But once I had my first kid, I couldn't do it anymore. COVID hit around the same time, so there was a lot of working from home, and I couldn't do that with a baby at home. I couldn't compartmentalize it anymore, couldn't separate work from home. It was hard to come to that, because I really felt like I was making a difference, but I had to do what was best for me — you can't do it when you can't separate it, and it's hard to separate as it is, but working from home during that time made it especially hard. I think that's an important thing to bring up — people don't realize what it really takes to go into that work. And turnover in those roles is very high, because from what I've seen, people don't get the resources they need for what they're seeing and dealing with. I don't think that's talked about enough, and I really hope that improves over time, because we lose a lot of good examiners and investigators who could do a lot of good, just because of the mental load that comes with that type of work.

Jess Vachon  41:56

It's not surprising, though, because you can only be dispassionate in the context of the work you're doing in that moment, and then you go out and live, see other people, and think about humanity, and how you balance that lack of humanity — in your case, this is my child, and I know what the world can be, and now I have to protect them. You don't want to bring that anger with you, because you have to bring balance back to your work. That's a lot, and I applaud you for knowing yourself well enough to say, I have to change, because I can't and won't draw that line when there are so many people who need to be saved, so many things that need fixing. To use a military term, you did your time in the trenches and then decided you needed to go work somewhere else where you could get that balance back — somewhere you could enjoy life, celebrate having a family, and know there are bad things out there while still creating good things in your own way.

Jess Vachon  43:06

So, you're with Ankura now, doing slightly different work — you've brought together your whole career to this point. Talk a little bit about what you do there, what brought you to that organization, and what keeps you passionate about the work.

Alyssa Lisiewski  43:21

Yeah, so like I mentioned earlier, I was working at Capital One, and I really did enjoy it, but once there were requirements to go back into the office, it just wasn't doable with my life — making those boundaries for myself. I had two young children, and a lot of the responsibility for taking kids to school, picking them up from daycare, doing activities, fell on me based on my husband's job, which doesn't have that flexibility. I really needed to find somewhere with more flexibility. When I was deciding what I wanted to do, I saw this opportunity — someone had actually reached out about a different role there, and when I was talking to them about my background, they said, we think we have something that might fit you better, because it has the threat intelligence aspect but also the forensics and expert witness work. I thought that was interesting, because I'd never really heard those combined. That was a real turning point — I got to bring everything from my career into one role. I really enjoyed that. I got to expand on things I hadn't had the opportunity to do as a government contractor or within a specific industry. I work with a lot of different clients across all types of industries. My team and I assist with threat intelligence and threat actor attribution, but we also do the deeper forensic investigations, expert witness work, declarations, testimony, and reporting. I get to do everything. I also get to find ways to intertwine those two things even more, which is interesting — we've been assisting a lot with post-breach litigation work, which brings in the threat intelligence piece, from data breaches and ransomware, along with the litigation side. I find that really interesting, and I like that every day is different, working on a bunch of different things. Throughout my career, I kept hitting points where I felt like there wasn't going to be more growth — there's only so much you can do. Here, that's really different, because there's always room to come up with new services and work with clients on new things. Sometimes someone reaches out and says, we need somebody to do X, Y, and Z, and that doesn't really exist yet, but we figure out a way to do it, and I love being able to do that. I have a fantastic team, and I have the flexibility — I'm a remote worker, but I also get to go to conferences and speak at them, which I never had the opportunity to do in previous roles. I'm very grateful for that, and for getting to do podcasts like this, meeting new people, talking about how I got where I am. Because in theory it seems like a direct path, but it really wasn't. If you think about a little four-year-old putting together a computer, to where I am today, it may seem more direct than it really was. But it was a really cool opportunity to bring everything together.

Jess Vachon  47:22

Yeah, it's interesting when we look back, twenty years or more into our careers, and think, how did I get here? I didn't start here, I didn't even know this was a thing, and now you're innovating — the work you're doing is forward-looking, you're out there looking for threats before they happen, in the moment as they're happening, and then testifying and bringing the evidence together. That's such a unique but satisfying role, because you're offensive, you're defensive, out there defending, trying to bring the scales back into balance. There's a lot to be said for people doing that — reinventing yourself when you find the point in the path you're at isn't where you want to be, and changing that path takes a lot of confidence, fortitude, thinking, planning. It's a great example of how someone can pivot, and pivot again, and find themselves in a very senior role, creating something new in the field and meeting with success. We've talked about your whole career, the dark side and the good side of it —

Jess Vachon  48:44

I like to bring things back to the personal. So, let's talk about how you ended up in a grocery store commercial. How does that happen?

Alyssa Lisiewski  48:55

Yeah, so when my sister and I were little — she's twenty months older than me, so we grew up very close — we'd sing and dance for people at family functions. I'm sure they hated it, but we loved it. My dad's cousin was working on a Shoppers Food Warehouse commercial, filming it, and they needed two little girls because something had fallen through. They called my dad and asked if we wanted to be in it. So, we drove out there — it was for a local Shoppers Food Warehouse campaign. It wasn't much: we stood there with an actress playing the mom, and I think my sister got to pick up a balloon and pass it to her — that was it. I remember it being a very long day because I kept having to redo takes. At the end of the day, we got to keep the balloons, since they gave us a second one, and we each got a dollar. That was it. But it was really cool. That's usually the thing I bring up when people ask what's something we don't know about you — I try to save it for things like this, since not many people know I was in a commercial. I've tried to find it, but since it was local, not a national campaign, I haven't been able to. I'm sure my parents have it on video somewhere in storage. I'd love to see it now.

Jess Vachon  50:30

Well, as a forensics expert, if you're not finding it, nobody's finding it. But that's such a great origin story — forensics expert and television personality. So outside of work, what do you do to recharge? What are your passions?

Alyssa Lisiewski  50:53

Yeah, like I mentioned, I have two young kids, a four-year-old and a six-year-old. They keep me busy, but they also re-energize me — especially on a hard day, I know what I'm doing it for, so I can spend time with them and do the things they like. I also, and this might sound lame, enjoy spending time with my dog. He's thirteen and a half, I've had him since he was a puppy, he's my ride-or-die, and that's part of why I love working from home — he's my office mate. I've also tried to find communities of other working moms, and that's helped a lot — moms' nights, being around people in a similar situation. I've joined some women-in-leadership type groups too, people in the same boat, doing things not related to work or industry, and I've met some really great people that way. And sometimes, honestly, I'll go back to my musical theater days and blast musicals and sing along — that's my stress relief. My husband knows if I'm blasting something like that, he should probably stay away for a little while. But I try to really spend time with family and be grateful I have that flexibility now in my career.

Jess Vachon  52:33

Thank you so much for sharing that. This has been such a rich conversation — you've given our listeners and me a lot to think about. Before I let you go, where can people find you, and what will you be up to in the next six months if people want to catch up with you?

Alyssa Lisiewski  52:48

I'd say definitely reach out to me on LinkedIn — that's always great. I'm thinking of going to some conferences, so if you see me anywhere, feel free to reach out. That's probably the easiest way. And hopefully you'll see me testifying in some cases where that information is public, so keep an eye out for that.

Jess Vachon  53:18

Maybe we'll look for you on TV.

Alyssa Lisiewski  53:20

Yeah, maybe not in a Shoppers Food Warehouse ad — maybe I'll get my daughter to do that. I feel like she'd be perfect for it. Maybe I should see if there are any opportunities there.

Jess Vachon  53:29

Alyssa, thank you for being here. You're exactly the kind of voice this show is built for, and I'm very grateful you decided to join us. And to our Voices of the Vigilant community, thank you as always for showing up — you're the reason this show exists. If this episode hit home, share it with someone who needs to hear it, leave a review, and keep doing the hard, important work. Until next time, everyone — stay vigilant. Bye.